Supreme Court, gay rights and religion

Today the US Supreme Court heard arguments in a case about religious freedom and gay rights. A Christian law student group at the University of California Berkeley was denied official recognition as a campus organization because they would not admit gays and lesbians, based on the religious views of the organization.

The Christian law student group's argument was that the university can't dictate who they must admit to their group, because that infringes on their religious right to admit only that who follow their (narrow, right wing) beliefs on who is a Christian. I can kinda see that, but I think that the opposing argument is stronger.

The university argues that any group of people has the right to choose who to admit to their group. But to gain official recognition, and the funding that goes along with it, all groups have to agree not to discriminate based on sex, sexual orientation, race and a few other criteria. The religious law students refused to do that, but want the funding and official recognition.

Based on the press reports, the two female justices pointed out the obvious - if one group is allowed to discriminate based on sexual orientation, another group may want to discriminate based on sex or race, and asked if that should be allowed.

This court is quite conservative, and I think will come up with the wrong decision. They will probably require the university to recognize the Christian law group. There is a middle way though. The court could decide that the Christian law student group has the right to exist, but the university does not have to recognize them if they will not agree with the university's requirements for recognition.

This case is not directly about gay rights, but whether a group has to follow a university's requirements to treat sexual orientation discrimination in the same way that race or sex discrimination is treated.


This is totally unrelated, but I wanted to welcome a new follower, LetMeDieFirst. You have an interesting screen name and avatar. I don't see that you have a blog, so don't know anything about you. If you want you can post something introducing yourself and telling us about you, or not, whatever you want.

am I proud to be an American?

I have been thinking about this topic since Michelle Obama said something about when her husband was elected, it was the first time that she felt proud to be an American. She was criticized by the right wing, but I completely understood what she meant. It is hard to be proud of your country when your ancestors have been enslaved, then "freed" but denied basic rights, lynched, discriminated against, etc.

So I started to think about my feelings about being an American. Perhaps I take too much for granted, and I realize that so many parts of the world don't have much of what Americans and other Westerners enjoy. But I can see where America falls short.

For me, it starts with how gays, lesbians and others who don't conform to rigid gender stereotypes are treated. I am treated as a second class citizen in my own country in many ways. I am denied recognition of my marriage and am legally a stranger to my husband in all but a handful of states; I could be fired from my job based on my sexual orientation in many states; my right to be considered for adoption wouldn't be allowed in some states; I can't serve in the military, not that I would want to, but I should have that option. So based on that, I'm not proud of my country's treatment of minorities.

But I am proud of some things my country has done. The defense of Europe during and after World War II was the right thing to do. Democracy has many problems, but it seems better than most other forms of government, so I'm glad that the US has spread democracy.

I can think of many things my country does wrong. Our government is much too militaristic - how many wars have we been in just during my lifetime? Vietnam, the Balkans, Iraq twice, Afghanistan, etc. Why do we still have troops in Korea over 50 years after fighting stopped? Why do we have military stationed all over the world? We are not the world's policeman. We spend more than the rest of the world combined on our military. That money is desperately needed for other priorities. Why does the US get involved in almost any conflict everywhere? Has the government heard of imperial overreach?

I think in many ways I have more of a European mindset than an American one. Americans have kept too much of the settler mentality, the "I'm going to find a piece of land for myself, and screw the rest of you." We don't seem to have the social cohesiveness that other countries do. The social safety net is full of holes. And insults and yelling are standard instead of calm discussions.

Our democracy has so many problems, most based on money. The candidate that raises the most money wins something like 95% of all elections. Corporate interests seem to rule our government, because they provide the money to win elections.

I can't leave out the role of religion in the US. The US got many of the religious fanatics that left Europe. (Why couldn't we just have gotten the prisoners like Australia did? They got the better end of the deal.) Many of those fanatics were extremely intolerant of others' religious beliefs. So many people base their voting on their religion, which is their right, but this is not a theocracy. You don't have the right to impose your religion or religious beliefson anyone else, even via the ballot box.

I do hope that some things are improving. Gay rights have advanced much during my lifetime. Perhaps when gays and lesbians have all the rights of other Americans thoughout the country I will finally be proud of my country, just as Michelle Obama was.